Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Take a breath, have courage and let go so I fly, fly, fly Past the hurt, past the goodbye with the wind in my chest and higher in my eyes I fly, fly, fly.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Higher.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Than every single light.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Welcome to another.
[00:00:48] Speaker C: Episode of Relational Trauma SOS a Her Wings Unfold Production, formerly Betrayal Trauma SOS I'm the host of this program. My name is Jenny Brockbank and I am honored to be here with you. I've been so excited to share this message with the world. I honestly believe that what we are sharing today is revolutionary and will change the trajectory of the healing for many, many people, me included. Her Wings Unfold is honored to be the parent organization of a brand new.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Fresh out of test groups first ever.
[00:01:24] Speaker C: Trauma sensitive 12 step program called TS12anon which again stands for trauma sensitive 12 steps Anonymous in a few minutes I.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Am excited to chat with my friend.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Lynn about her thoughts regarding TS12 and on. Before I do, I want to tell you a little bit about the parent organization of TS12 and on and the producer of this podcast Her Wings Unfold which is a non profit born of profound need to help women heal, find empowerment and rise after experiencing another's abuse, addiction, adultery or abandonment which is what we call 4A behavior.
We're dreaming big over here because we've lived and seen the profound need. That's why we're working toward offering advocacy care packages, low or no cost healing retreats for survivors in a physical space. We plan to offer things like Trauma Informed Yoga, Art Therapy, Income building workshops. These things are not luxuries for survivors, they are lifelines. At Her Wings Unfold we believe healing should be compassionate, affordable to absolutely everyone and rooted in dignity. Whether you donate Share this Podcast Follow us Here Follow us on social media we're on Instagram both Her Wings Unfold is on Instagram and this podcast Relational Trauma SOS is on Instagram. Sign up for our Newsletter Give this podcast five stars so that others can more easily find it or simply listen. You are helping women rise.
Links will be in the show Notes Her Wings Unfold believes that every woman deserves to not only heal but to truly soar.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: She's learning to breathe in the light of the day she's rising with strength forged from sorrow and flame she's walking through fire with a heart made of gold. She's done being caged and Her Wings Unfold.
[00:03:36] Speaker B: Before chatting with Lynn, I want to share that now available is the.
[00:03:40] Speaker C: First ever truly trauma sensitive 12 step literature which is called TS12 and on. This book was written generally for those who have experienced another's abuse, addiction, adultery and or abandonment and we plan to partner with credible organizations to adapt our current book to be more specific for different populations. For instance, we would like a betrayal trauma specific adaptation, a domestic violence adaptation, an adaptation for those who have lost a loved one due to suicide, one for those with loved ones who struggle with alcohol, narcotics, childhood abuse, sexual violence, etc. If you know of credible and influential organizations who might like to partner with us in these adaptations, we hope that you will ask them to contact us on either of our websites, ts12anon.org or herwingsunfold.org we would love to see TS12 and on meetings in every women's shelter and as such we offer special book pricing for shelters. In the future we hope to obtain grants or other funding and to help cover the costs of books for shelters so that there is no cost barrier.
Also, we do offer bulk pricing and purchases of 10 or more books for bulk pricing and for shelter pricing. Please contact us on ts12anon.org One more.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Thing that I would like to mention.
[00:05:07] Speaker C: Is that TS12 annon is not appropriate for everyone.
I will quote the book TS12 is not appropriate for those who have perpetuated abuse or harm and who are unwilling or unable to take accountability for their actions.
Further examples include individuals with untreated mental illness, including personality disorders, who may misuse the program's trauma sensitive language to avoid responsibility, manipulate others or perpetuate harm.
Additionally, the the program's emphasis on self reflection and empathy may present challenges and can increase the risk of weaponizing its principles against those they have harmed.
One question people might have is whether or not men can attend TS12 non meetings and the answer is it depends.
Each meeting is autonomous, meaning they get to make up their own roles and qualifications.
There are some meetings where everyone is welcome. For instance, our general meetings on Mondays are for all.
What this means is that if there is not a current meeting to meet a need for anyone, including men. We invite you to research a bit and if it's a good fit to create your own TS12 on meeting.
Meetings can be listed on the TS12 and on website and we do require registration to obtain links or specific locations.
I will add that we love so many things about 12 steps over here. For instance, meetings are typically free, which makes them more accessible to survivors who often struggle financially. There's the critical piece of anonymity that survivors often long for and need.
We love the community that 12 Steps provides and we love the sacred space of healing when survivors come Together to heal and to offer their experience, strength and hope.
Having stated that, TS12anon addresses issues for survivors that traditional 12 step models simply aren't equipped for.
It's a beautiful program that we hope will help many, many, many people make their lives and homes more beautiful.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: Well, I'm really excited to welcome my really good friend Lynn. And Lynn has worked a lot of different 12 step programs and so as such I met her in one 12 step program and she's since moved to a different one. But she has amazing insights into 12 STEP programs and the differences and how they run and good groups versus groups that need some improvement.
And so as such, I'm really excited to welcome Lynn to talk about TS12NAND today which is trauma sensitive 12 steps. So welcome Lynn. Glad to have you here.
[00:08:00] Speaker D: Thank you so much. I am really excited to be part of this. I really think that this is a revolution and that we need this trauma sensitive care for people who are recovering and healing.
[00:08:13] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: Yes, I think so too.
So I'm really excited that her Wings Unfold has taken this on so that we can hopefully help lots of different people find the hope and healing that they need.
I guess, I guess we'll start. Would you mind sharing and I'll share as well. Like what different kinds of 12 step groups and generally speaking, have you participated in and about how many have you have you done?
[00:08:42] Speaker D: Yeah. So I was thinking about this the other day and I have actually accounted how many different groups I reached out to and that was 10 different groups.
[00:08:55] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:08:57] Speaker D: So some of them were, you know, different groups within the same type of program but different locations. But.
And not all of those did I attend, but I have attended consistently and for, you know, long periods of time. Six different recovery groups.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:09:14] Speaker D: That all kind of incorporate, most of them incorporate 12 steps in some way or fashion.
[00:09:21] Speaker E: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: And I don't have quite that many but, but you know, I've done like four, I've done four different kinds and so I would say though it's given me a taste that really there's some beautiful, beautiful things about 12 steps, you know, that I, I've just been hungry for and they really are good in so many ways. However, as we've talked about and as we've discussed, you and I, that there is a really profound need for evolution of 12 steps family and support programs.
[00:09:54] Speaker D: I agree. Yes. I as, as you can see by the number of groups I have reached out to, I am somewhat of a persistent fighter. I'm not one to just say well, this is how it goes. I kind of fight for things and that can be good and bad, but it doesn't. Not everybody is like that. You know, some. Some people, if, if they. The experience they come into, if there's obstacles and there are definitely, you know, when I came into different 12 step programs, there were obstacles that I had to sort of fight through. It wasn't.
There are things I had to get over in order to participate because I saw the healing in other members of the group. I saw like, what, what it was bringing into their lives.
So I kind of said, okay, well, I don't really like this. It doesn't make a great first impression, but it must get better or something because there's these people. And so I persisted.
Not everybody is in the space to be able to do that. And definitely, I think the time of my life, where I started, was a factor in my favor. Not everybody. Sometimes when people first learn about 12 steps or come to a crisis in their lives, they're not in a place to sort of overcome and persist. Some of these obstacles that will kind of talk about a little bit later.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And I agree. I also, I think I came to the conclusion too, where it's just like I am not in a place anymore to listen to some of the language and things consistently. I just felt like for me, I know more now.
I can do better, you know, in healing.
[00:11:44] Speaker D: Yeah. Have power. For sure, they have power. And even if cognitively you can say, well, that, that language is a little outdated. That doesn't apply to me. But your, your. Your ears are hearing that, your body's hearing those words, and I think that is still impactful.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: I agree. I agree.
[00:12:04] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: So before we get going on discussing the differences between traditional 12 steps and TS12 and on which is trauma sensitive 12 steps, I think I would just like to talk about that. We're honoring the past, but we're also evolving the future.
So it's like 12 steps is a really beautiful foundation.
And it was written a long time ago and it was written without trauma survivors in mind. In fact, it was originally written for alcoholics, obviously.
And so for us, as we've developed over the years, and you and I have both participated in programs for family. Family members or for loved ones of those who are struggling, I would say that I want to make sure that we honor too, that it really is a profound program that was created.
[00:13:03] Speaker D: Yes, absolutely.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: And so what we're doing is we're building on this. We're transforming it to better Fit survivors. We know more now so we can do more. And so I'm excited to talk about what that looks like and how that happens in TS12. Non.
[00:13:20] Speaker D: Definitely.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: We'll start with this one. Traditional 12 steps are built on a codependent or co addict model which places blame on those who are affected.
And I'm wondering if you, like me, have experienced this kind of a feeling where it's kind of like.
And what is your role in their behavior or what is your role in things that, to be perfectly honest, are not our faults, if that makes sense.
[00:13:48] Speaker D: Right. Yes. I've. I've definitely been told through different literature that I'm a para alcoholic.
I've been told that, you know, that, I mean, we'll talk about this later, that I'm. That I'm insane, you know, and, and I understand that there's, there's nuance to these things.
I understand that. But you know, the, like we said, language can be triggering that.
That I'm obsessing about my loved one's behavior or that I basically had become them. That's another way that that's been worded that. That I as the victim had become who my perpetrator was. Yeah. That those are all different, different wordings that I have seen.
[00:14:46] Speaker E: Yeah. Thank you.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: I've heard similar things and I think the concept that they like to bring in a lot of times is we're going to take what we like and leave the rest, as you had kind of mentioned earlier.
And. But there's just so much of that to where it's like, you know, it's so triggering to think through and for somebody who's in high trauma to come in and have to think through that and to think.
I don't know. That doesn't quite feel right.
[00:15:14] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a mental gymnastics and kind of a filtration system that you have to have, which, you know, if you're farther down the road, maybe you can do that. But that's a lot to ask of someone who's coming from, um, you know, abuse, addiction, abandonment, you know, things like that.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: I agree with that.
Something that I love. And you've been attending TS12 non meetings for about six months now. Right.
[00:15:42] Speaker D: And I love it. It is life changing.
[00:15:45] Speaker E: Well, thank you.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: For me too.
Something that I love is that it's built on a pro dependent trauma model instead of a codependent or co addict model.
And so pro dependence honors the natural human desire for connection, recognizing it as a healthy need rather than a sign of Pathology.
And I really kind of lean into that.
It just feels much better to my soul to be like, of course, of course. You know, this person who I love and adore, I want connection with them.
And that makes so much sense.
[00:16:18] Speaker D: Well, and the science backs it up. You know, we know so much more. More than when 12 steps were originally created and used for Al Anon and these different programs that were for the loved one.
And we know now all the neurological, the things about the brain that support the evidence that we are meant to depend upon and be interdependent with our loved ones.
You know, especially when you look at child development and when you're talking about parent relationships, it's like, this is how we are wired to be. And when things are disrupted with that relationship, the coping mechanisms that we as children, that's our brain doing that. Our brain is just helping us survive. And let's not demonize that. You know, let's. Let's honor the fact that, wow, look at what your brain did. You were in this situation and I wanted to protect you. And so this is what it did. And it feels so good to honor that.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so beautiful. Beautifully said.
The other part that it's built on, so it's a pro dependent trauma model.
And so the thing that I love about a trauma model is it meets people where they are so people can come into the program.
And the trauma model that we use is three parts.
So if you're in stage one, it's safety and stabilization, two, it's grief and mourning, and three, it's integration and growth. And I think, honestly, a lot of traditional 12 steps, when you get to steps like four through nine, that is stage three work. And so what happens is when people come and they are supposed to be looking at, you know, in a traditional step four and looking at their character defects, which we don't really like that. That term, but that is stage three work.
To be looking at that, and not everybody is there. Sometimes we need safety and stabilization or grief and mourning. And it's really important, I think, that if we can come into things and still work each step according to what stage we're in. Yes, it's so empowering. And we also don't get so stuck on steps for months, years at a time, which can be discouraging, really, when we're trying to make progress.
[00:18:45] Speaker D: Definitely. Yeah.
I have been in groups where they basically say, well, we know step four scares people off, so just don't worry about it. Just do step three, one through three, and just don't even think about. But. And, and okay. I mean, that's, that's what some people do. I like the idea of, like, do what works for you. So they're trying to, you know, maybe implement some of these principles of honoring the stage you're at. But you're still going to these meetings where you're hearing all, all of this discussion and readings about these steps. And again, it's, it's like you can sit there and say, well, it's okay, I'm not ready for this step yet, so I don't need to. But you're still in. You're being inundated with all this messaging and that is going to affect you.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:19:38] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: Thank you for voicing that.
[00:19:40] Speaker D: And you know what? I had another thought about the grief and mourning.
[00:19:44] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:19:45] Speaker D: If you don't mind me sharing that. When I saw that, I mean, this, I had never seen this, this trauma model before TS12 and on. And, and I've done a lot of healing stuff, you know, following therapists and these different things. So that was really new for me and I just loved it and latched onto it. And I loved the part about grief and mourning because that is something that is not really talked about in, in traditional 12 step literature that I have seen. There's, there's some discussion of it and sometimes people will talk about grief, but it can't become part of the culture if it's not a big part of the literature. And that is something that TS12 and on hits on, well, is the grief piece. Because to me, that is, if you can't, if you can't honor those feelings of grief and you're trying to just think your way out of it, which a lot of, a lot of traditional 12 step is more, a little bit more cognitive versus in your feelings, then you're gonna actually be stuck.
You know, cognitively you can understand these concepts and you can move through them, but if internally that grief hasn't been felt and moved through, then you're, you're actually going to be really stuck. And you know, there's a lot out there nowadays that that talks about. A lot of therapists are talking about this concept of intellectualization, and that's something I do a lot.
And it's basically like trying to think your way out of feelings that you don't want to feel.
And so I do feel like traditional 12 step is a little bit more towards intellectualizing and analyzing and, and there's a time and place for that, but I think it's not balanced as well with that, honoring your feelings and actually some of the somatic things, like there's different things in TS12 and on that talk about being in your body, you know, connecting to your body. And I just. That's so important for healing that piece.
[00:21:56] Speaker B: I agree.
Yeah. It just really.
For me, my healing isn't complete until I have grieved something.
You know, there's something about it that it just absolutely changes me.
It helps me see things, it helps me accept things. It's just very powerful. So thank you.
[00:22:14] Speaker D: It's a. It's like there's a shift in your whole way of thinking and in your body and the way. The way you react to things. So absolutely. Very powerful.
[00:22:24] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: So next is that traditional 12 steps can unintentionally cause harm, including secondary trauma with the existing language and presentation of concepts.
And I don't know if you've experienced this. I started to think about it and like, I've definitely felt like uncomfortable, but I have definitely seen where people and heard people talk about that it actually caused secondary trauma.
[00:22:53] Speaker D: Yes. I do think. I think maybe we.
There is a culture in some of the groups to sort of minimize the effect or.
I don't want to say gaslight, but, you know, there's a little bit of explaining away and justifying or rationalizing the effects that these words have on us. But I do think that there is. I do feel I've experienced a little bit of the secondary trauma that it talks about. And I actually.
Would you like me to share my list?
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah, you have a list I'd love to hear.
[00:23:29] Speaker D: So I actually, just because we. We discussed this, and I was thinking, well, what is the language? You know, and I could only think of a few of the words. Like, we talked about insanity and. But then I went through one of my books, just one of them, and I just kind of flipped through very briefly, and in just a few minutes I could pull out so many different phrases and kind of harmful.
Triggering, I would say, triggering language.
So just the whole idea, as a person who's experienced another's addiction, abandonment, you know, the 4A behavior to hear about making amends, that's just.
That's triggering. You know, if someone. If somebody got a snake bite, would you be rushing in to be like, hey, let's. Let's see how you can make amends? Maybe that will make you feel better about your snake bite, Right. Then you won't. You won't, you know, dislike this snake anymore? I don't know. Well, yeah, go ahead.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: Well, and to to mention that we do change. Making amends to restoration, the concept of restoration.
And that doesn't mean necessarily that we are making amends because we don't always own amends. Like, we don't. And sometimes, though, we're needing to restore things, we're needing to restore safety, or we're needing to restore and to figure out what is the truth, you know, and how can I stay in truth in this situation?
So I feel like that's. That's really empowering. And when people get to a place where maybe it is appropriate to make repair for things that they have done, they can then do that. But that's more like stage three work. Right. So when they're not there, they don't need to work on anything like that or address it or anything at that point.
[00:25:22] Speaker D: I love the term restoration because that's just such a more positive word than amends. But. But yeah, you're restoring, like you said, whatever it needs, whatever it is that your higher power is kind of guiding you, saying this is what. This is what you're ready to restore, you know, And I think that's. I think that's powerful.
[00:25:43] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker D: Some other. We talked about defects. We talked about the word powerless. I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit more as well. But some of the words were that we, as the.
As the victims had become addicted to different things like people or emotions or situations. And that. That's no worse an addiction than, you know, I don't know what you would say. And our loved ones. Addiction.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: So that.
[00:26:15] Speaker D: That term is that. Or that phrasing is just like, wait a minute. I don't know. I don't know. That doesn't feel true to me.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: That doesn't either.
[00:26:25] Speaker D: Yeah.
Talking about that. We. We're suffering an illness again. We are wired to. To survive and to do what we. And part of that survival is like our human connections. And so it's not an illness.
It's not.
[00:26:43] Speaker E: I love that.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: It's normal.
[00:26:46] Speaker D: It's normal. Yes. Yes. So to look at it as an illness isn't. Isn't helpful. I think talking about negatively, about depending on ourselves too much. Well, sometimes if the people around you are not being dependable, you know.
[00:27:00] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:27:00] Speaker D: Then you have to depend on yourself. And that's not. That's not an illness. That's a, you know, a difficult circumstance.
[00:27:07] Speaker B: And you know what? Sometimes we can take those things too. I just want to say and learn and be like, okay, this is how I've survived. Right now. I want to show up a little differently and that's okay, but it's a total shift in the way that we talk to ourselves about it. The way we address it. It's not shame based kind. It's gentle and it still helps us to look at ways that, that we would like to show up differently. Right.
[00:27:33] Speaker D: Because what does, what do all, you know, psychologists and therapists tell us about our relationships? Do we criticize our loved ones into changing? No, we're, we're supposed to love them into changing.
[00:27:44] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:27:44] Speaker D: And it's the same concept with ourselves.
This, I feel like these different terms and these ways of expressing things are like you said, shame based and sort of trying to criticize and pick apart the things into changing. But yeah, if we love and honor where we've been, then we can change. It's counterintuitive but it's, it's actually like to normalize. It actually helps us to come out of it better and to say yeah, that's, that's, that's how it was and, and that's normal and that's what I was meant to do, but now I know better and I don't need to stay there.
[00:28:23] Speaker E: Yeah, I love that.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: I love that. Do you have more on the list?
[00:28:28] Speaker D: There were a couple. I'm telling you, just these few minutes like it. One thing it talked about was there was a, there was a line in one of my books that talked about increasing our acceptance. Like being, being more accepting of others and others imperfections and faults and. Okay, yeah, that sounds great. But in the context of someone who is, you know, maybe in the beginning stages of coming out of, you know, a loved one's abuse or other things, you are telling people. Yeah, just, just become more tolerant of people. Accept other people however they are. You can't control it. Just accept it. You know, there's a lot of that, you know, just surrender. And, and, and I do think surrender is very powerful but I think it's hard to know how to use it correctly when you are, like I said, in that kind of halfway in denial, sort of not seeing everything yet stage. It can be very easy to just go back into, okay, I should just, I should just assume responsibility.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: And yeah, I, I think too what is missing in something like that is.
[00:29:45] Speaker E: Like what can we do?
[00:29:47] Speaker B: Right? There is just this concept that we're just going to surrender. We're just going to do things.
When for instance, in TS12 and on we have a rest process. It is basically a surrender process.
However, what's different is the t. So I'll just say R is that we release to God what we can't control, and specifically what we can't control.
E is that we express it to someone.
S is that we symbolize it somehow.
Something I like to do, I just like to lift my hands up to God and just be like, I'm giving this to you. But T is the powerful part, and it's the part that is missing in most surrender processes, which is take action.
And so is there something. We can't always take action, you know, but sometimes we can. It's like, maybe there's a boundary that I could set. Maybe somebody needs some safety. Maybe I need some soul care because my nervous system is out of whack after this discovery or this hard and painful thing.
And so I think that it needs to be balanced out. Not only what we're going to give to the. To God, not only what we're going to surrender, but what are we going to do as well.
[00:31:03] Speaker D: Yeah. Can I share a personal experience?
So due to my, you know, experience and my. My time in traditional 12 step, where it. It does talk so much about how you can't control your loved one's actions, you.
You just need to surrender the control.
And. And I just kind of built in me, there is this culture that it's not healthy to be worrying about what your addict is doing.
That actually got me into a lot of trouble.
[00:31:42] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:31:42] Speaker D: It was not. It was so harmful for me. And I'm not blaming that on. On the program. You know, that's my.
That's my responsibility.
But I do think that that was a factor that I knew that there were things going on that were not right and not safe, not feeling good. But I told myself, well, I'm supposed to just surrender and not worry about it. I'm supposed to just focus on me.
And so I didn't take any action. I thought that was being healthy. And it turns out that that was really harmful. And I. I was unsafe. I was really unsafe in that situation. So now I know better, and I'm thankful for that. But a big part of that is boundaries need to be heavily discussed, and people need, you know, mentorship kind of to be able to even see what that looks like. Because you can say boundaries, and people are like, what? I don't know. And that's how I was. I was like, I.
[00:32:44] Speaker E: Me too.
[00:32:44] Speaker D: I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I don't know what that looks like. It's a great concept, but I don't know how to actually do that. And, and, and boundary work is so important. And I, and I know boundaries are discussed in these groups too, but it's great when it's more in the literature.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Right, right. Because typically, at least in the programs that I've been in that were 12 step based, I would say boundaries wasn't in the literature at all. What was, what was discussed boundary wise was what the group brought.
And I don't know if that's true of all 12 step programs, but I can say that specifically about some of the ones that I did work. So.
[00:33:27] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I think it depends on, you know, some of the later ones are a little bit better and more on that and might have that in the literature. But, but this is just, it's woven into TS12 and on so.
[00:33:41] Speaker E: Well, thank you.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: Yes, I think so too. I really love that part.
Okay, so moving on. Traditional 12 steps teaches the concept of powerlessness and surrender, which can be easily misunderstood by those who are affected by 4A behavior. And again, 4A behavior is another's abuse, addiction, adultery or abandonment. TS12 Anon has an emphasis on self compassion and empowerment, helping participants to better understand what they can do while also helping them to understand what is beyond their control.
So I would say we can take the same concepts and word them differently and there is more, you know, empowerment.
For instance, telling such a, someone like a rape survivor, you know, something about powerlessness can feel so devastating.
[00:34:36] Speaker D: Well, I, I definitely felt powerlessness and it really helped for me to, for I had to have people tell me, you are allowed to do this and say this. Like, I, I just, I was like, what? Really?
[00:34:50] Speaker B: That's.
[00:34:50] Speaker D: So, that's allowed. It's, it's like I needed permission and I feel like that's what this program does. It, it helps give that permission where a lot of people need that.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Okay. Traditional 12 steps focus on surrendering to a higher power.
And while we do love the concept, you know, of surrender, we do voice it differently, we word it differently. TS12 Anon focuses on rebuilding trust with a higher power and normalizes the complexity of the relationship with the higher power after accepting, experiencing another's painful or destructive behavior.
And I would say this is so critical because I have yet to meet someone who has experienced significant destructive behavior from someone that hasn't come away with it with some kind of question of like, why God or you left me or something like that, to where there is really pain involved in that relationship. So TS12 and on encourages a rebuilding of that being truthful with our higher power. To say something hurt. Giving our higher power, you know, the opportunity to help us understand better or.
[00:36:07] Speaker C: We can rebuild things.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: Basically, it's just a little different approach.
And like I talked about earlier with the rest process, we still do have a surrender process, but it's just a little more empowering, and it's got different language that I feel is just critical.
[00:36:24] Speaker D: I love it, and I love that. Normalizing the complexity of the relationship. I love that because so often our relationship to our higher power is based on what we know from the people around us. You know, that is how we.
That is how we kind of put a face, so to speak, on. On this higher power.
And if relationships have trauma and there's dysfunction there, how is that not going to affect the way we see our higher power? You know, I. I definitely experienced that, and I do feel like it did turn me off a little bit when there was discussion of higher power in. In different literature of different groups. It sometimes in some groups, it felt a little bit preachy or condemning, and it was just automatically assuming. Like, before you came into recovery, you were just, you know, you didn't really believe in God, or if you did, it wasn't a very good faith or. I don't know. There's just, you know, there is a little bit of condescension, I guess, towards it, and. And I definitely didn't feel that way. I felt like I had a deep connection prior to recovery, but I definitely had to piece things back together, you know, at one point when things just were really intense in my life and I had been, you know, just so let down by all the humans in life, you know, several significant people in my life. It definitely helps to honor that complexity and say, hey, it's normal. It's normal for this relationship to be disrupted a little bit. And there's nothing wrong with you that. That you feel that way.
[00:38:18] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:38:18] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: That's beautifully said.
[00:38:19] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: Okay, so in traditional 12 steps, we've hit on this a little bit.
Step four focuses on character defects.
And in TS12 and on, we do not like to use the word character defects. But I will state that when people, if they're doing face three work, they can do a more traditional step four.
Yeah, step four.
But there's value in that.
[00:38:45] Speaker D: There's definite value. We're not saying that, you know, if anything's uncomfortable, you just don't need to do that. You know, that's not. That's not what this is about. This is about.
Yeah, that's a great tool for. For development and Personal growth.
And you may not be ready for that depending on where you are in your healing.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Right. So ts12,9, we have inventories that are based on where people fall in a trauma model. So for instance, if they're working phase one, they might do a safety inventory or they might just identify emotions.
People in a phase one or stage one might look at self worth issues and develop self worth and heal things.
You know, work on that kind of healing. Healing isn't linear, by the way. So people working stage three work might say, I'm not feeling safe. And they might go back to phase one, stage one, and work, work, that kind of thing. Recently I did one I love. So on the TS12 and on website, we have suggestions for different inventories that are according to stage one, stage two, stage three. And for me, I realized I was feeling a lot of fear. And, you know, I think you've done the fear one too. You were the one.
[00:40:09] Speaker D: It was so good. Definitely. I've referred back to it many times. I feel like it really helped me pivot some things in my life.
[00:40:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that for me too.
And I just remember at the end, because you go through and you highlight different colors and things, and at the end I was like, this is why, you know, and I can normalize that. Actually, some of what I'm going through is very intense and very stressful. And that makes sense.
It was, it was just so helpful. And I would say my nervous system calmed down quite a bit.
[00:40:41] Speaker D: Well, that's so wonderful.
[00:40:43] Speaker B: It was really cool. Yeah. So in traditional 12 steps, groups are peer led. And in TS12, nine groups can be peer led. And the ones that we have, by the way, as of today, we have three live groups.
And so, and, and they're like, Monday night is a general meeting.
Thursday night is a betrayal trauma, women's only meeting. And then Sundays is a meeting for those experiencing a loved one who is emotionally immature or who might have a personality disorder, that kind of thing.
But we plan to have many more meetings.
So, you know, if in the coming weeks you're like, I think I would like something on, you know, experiencing domestic violence or something like abandonment something. A huge abandonment piece would be suicide, actually. So a loved one suicide. And we would love to have a suicide. A group for. For survivors of those who've experienced suicide. So anyways, depending on the level of what people are experiencing, I think that it's. It's wise to say, you know, what if somebody has experienced sexual violence, they might need a therapist to lead a group for A while, until it's not quite as devastating, you know, until, like, that trauma level is calmed down. And so the thing I love about ts12 nun, the only cost for professionals to run groups like that on our end is the literature.
[00:42:20] Speaker E: That's all.
[00:42:21] Speaker D: It's amazing.
[00:42:22] Speaker B: So we're very hopeful. We want healing to be accessible and affordable so that anybody can find healing, if they really need to, from trauma.
So in traditional 12 steps, there's a more rigid structure and application for each participant.
And in TS12 and on, it allows each participant to experience healing according to their individual journey. The structure is highly, highly adaptable.
I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about that and what that's looked like for you?
[00:42:54] Speaker D: Well, one of the things we've talked about is step 11 and how rigid that is in. In, I think all of the programs that I've been to. Anyway, it talks about having conscious contact with your higher power.
[00:43:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:43:10] Speaker D: But mentions that you should pray only for the.
The knowledge of its will for us and the power to carry that out or something like that.
[00:43:20] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Speaker D: And so it's. It's actually telling us exactly what we have to pray for. And I. I understand.
You know, honestly, I never even. That. That didn't honestly bother me. I didn't even really think that much about it until well into starting TS12 and on and, and. And seeing the step 11 that is there, which is just so beautiful. I just found it so empowering and so nurturing to my relationship to my higher power. So it talks about having different ways of connecting with your higher power and that there's many different ways, and we don't. We don't have to do it just this one way.
[00:44:07] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:44:07] Speaker D: And I know one of the things is, I'm. You can. You can list maybe more of the things that, That I don't. That I don't remember, but one of the ways is through music. And I'll tell you, it was so validating getting to that step because I do. I do pray a lot, and that is a very important part of my life.
And I also find that some of my best connecting with my higher power is through music.
And it just. There's something about it. I need both. But it was. It's very validating because I just felt. I don't know, I guess I don't always feel like I'm doing a good job. You know, in air quotes when I'm praying, there's certain, I don't know, self criticism that. That comes into play. But with music that's just pure. It just like, transcends all that. And I will often just sing some of my favorite worship songs. Whatever is on my mind, like, whatever I would like to tell my higher power, I will sing, like, the song that goes with that. And that's. To me, that's just powerful.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: I love that so much.
So in traditional 12 steps, coping mechanisms are viewed as defects of character. And we've hit on this a bit.
[00:45:23] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:45:24] Speaker B: But in TS12 and on, coping mechanisms are reframed as adaptive strategies born of survival. So I love how you talked about this earlier.
I guess I just want to point out that I think this is where a lot of the shame is born to. Where it's like. It's like this very black and white thinking of, like, oh, I did this thing wrong, you know, versus. Whereas we're going to look at it and say, okay, I showed up in this way. I don't quite like how I showed up in this way.
Why did I do it?
[00:45:57] Speaker D: Why did I.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: What happened? You know, what was I thinking? What was I feeling?
And to better understand the root issues of it so that those root issues can be healed.
And then we just show up differently. We show up better.
[00:46:13] Speaker D: Yeah. Well, if you think about it, I mean, we don't have shame about the fact that we, when we were babies, we can feed ourselves. Like, there's just different, you know, it's a stage of your development. There's no shame in that. There's no even.
Like, I shouldn't have shown up that way. Even that There's. It's just like. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I didn't have the muscular, you know, the muscle coordination for that, you know, So I think if we look at it like that, just because we are adults doesn't mean that, you know, our. Our emotional development is necessarily at that stage based on what different things have happened to us and our life experiences. So.
[00:46:56] Speaker B: Right.
[00:46:56] Speaker D: I just think it's so important to look at that rather than, oh, that was a wrong thing I did, or I shouldn't have been that way, or. Or even, I don't like that I did that. It's more just like, yeah, that was a part of my development and now I see it, so I get to move on into a new phase.
[00:47:16] Speaker E: Yeah, I love that.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: I love that. I think. So in the book, one of the examples that's used is, um, a woman is struggling and she said she was showing up in ways that she just didn't really like snappy with her children.
And she knelt down in just so much shame with her higher powers saying, just fix me. I just can't believe it. I can't believe I'm showing up this way. And she felt prompted to evaluate her emotions, her feelings, and she started to realize she was feeling afraid. And it was so interesting because when she addressed the fear, she then showed up in different ways and she was able to show up more healed. And I just think that the more we can look at it and say, okay, this isn't my true self. What's going on with me? How can I meet that need?
I think TS12 and on does a really great job of helping us go to those roots instead of the branches.
[00:48:16] Speaker D: I love the way you word that. Yeah, that's what it really feels like. It feels like you're getting down deeper and.
But like with a compassionate, in a compatible. You know, usually when you talk about going deep, it's like there's this negative, like there's a fear of what you may find or whatever. But it's like a compassionate, loving gardening, digging down into roots.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:48:46] Speaker E: Well, thank you.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: Thank you, Lynn. I'm just so honored that you joined me. Thank you for joining us in healing and in shar.
[00:48:54] Speaker E: The.
[00:48:54] Speaker B: The message of healing so other people can understand the differences. You're just a true, true friend and I just value you so much.
[00:49:02] Speaker D: Oh, thank you. Same. And I'm just, I'm grateful for this program and I just really hope that anybody who's suffering and struggling with any kind of relationship trauma, relationship difficulty. I just really feel like anyone could benefit from this program. Whether there's something really serious and intense or not. It's just so compassionate, kind and gentle and I love that.
[00:49:30] Speaker E: Oh, thank you.
[00:49:32] Speaker B: Honored to have you.
[00:49:34] Speaker C: We love that you joined us today. Would you like to experience a trauma sensitive 12 step group for yourself? We hope that you will.
We currently have three available virtual public meetings and more are on the way, so check back often.
Our current groups include a Monday night general meeting, a Thursday night women's only meeting for those who have experienced betrayal trauma, and a Sunday night group for those with a loved one who is emotionally immature and or has a personality disorder. We are hopeful that others will come to love the program like we do and start their own autonomous meetings for new groups. We plan to offer optional support including training slide presentations for the steps and meeting scripts. Check out ts12anon.org to find or start a meeting.
Thank you for tuning in to relational trauma sos.
[00:50:28] Speaker B: Will you please go and give this.
[00:50:29] Speaker C: Program five stars so that other survivors can more easily find healing. We invite you to follow relational trauma. SOS and her wings unfold on Instagram.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: So I fly past the hurt, past the goodbye with the wind in my chest and fire in my eyes I fly, fly, fly higher than every single light.
[00:51:08] Speaker C: You belong here.
