[00:00:00] Speaker A: Take a breath, have courage and let go. [00:00:07] Speaker B: You're listening to Relational Trauma SOS her wings unfold Production Trauma survivors belong here. [00:00:21] Speaker A: So I fly, fly, fly Past the hurt, past the goodbye with the wind in my chest and higher in my eyes I fly, fly, fly higher than every single light. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Welcome to all listeners and a special shout out to listeners from Barnsley, England, Telford, Pennsylvania and Atlanta, Georgia. Hello from Saratoga Springs, Utah. I'm really looking forward to chatting about boundaries and we're why it's important to figure out what the root of destructive patterns look like so that we place boundaries on root issues instead of just the things that are more obvious. But first, can I tell you about Julia? Recently, a woman we'll call Julia discovered that her spouse had been betraying her trust in ways she never imagined. She sought therapy, tried honest conversations, and looked for ways to repair their relationship. Instead of taking responsibility, her husband denied what happened, minimized the impact and shifted blame onto her. Over time, he had gained control over many aspects of her life, cutting off access to shared finances, manipulating their children, monitoring her communications, creating an explosive environment full of fear, and subtly isolating her from friends and family. Julia was left financially destitute, heartbroken and feeling trapped. She filed for divorce only to face ongoing manipulation and new battles of post separation abuse. Julia's story is not just about her marriage. It's about a person whose unchecked behavior threatens the well being of those around him. Her children, her friends, and even the broader community are affected by his coercive control and unpredictable behavior. This makes Julia's need for safety and support urgent, not only for her own healing, but for the protection and restoration of everyone impacted by his actions. She is exhausted, she is hurting and she needs help. Women like Julia are fighting battles most people will never see and can scarcely imagine. They feel drained, anxious and uncertain, struggling to regain a sense of safety, trust and autonomy in their own lives. That's why we're hosting a three day, two night retreat in Utah for survivors like Julia. Every need will be cared for. Participants will experience trauma, sensitive yoga, therapist presentations, TS12 and on support groups, creative expression through a Kintsugi project, an Angel Whisper experience, and the chance to connect deeply with others who understand. You can help make this possible. You can help make a real difference in a woman's life. With a gift of $50, she receives a warm welcome gift, a powerful reminder that she is seen, valued and cared for. From the moment she arrives. $200 provides her with a full day of retreat care, giving her the space and support she needs to rest, reflect and begin to heal. $600 gives one woman the gift of the Full Retreat, immersing her in every experience designed to nurture, restore and empower her. $800 covers her entire retreat stay, plus travel, ensuring distance or transportation challenges don't keep her from receiving the care she needs. And A gift of $1,800 makes you a Circle of Healing sponsor, giving three women the full Retreat experience a chance to breathe, connect and start to rebuild their lives. For Those who donate $600 or more, we would love to thank you individually or your organization publicly on this podcast and on our website. Or donors may remain anonymous should you choose. Every dollar goes to creating safety, care and restoration for survivors. Your support gives women like Julia the space, time and resources they need to heal. Will you help make that possible? Will you help Julia and others like her? Please visit herwingsunfold.org to donate she's turning. [00:05:08] Speaker A: To breathe in the light of the day she's rising with strength forged from sorrow and flame she's walking through fire with a heart made of gold she's done being caged and her wings unfold. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Before I start, I want to say that there are severe situations where the following would not help. I will end this podcast sharing such an example and offering alternative options. So if you're in a super severe situation, maybe with domestic violence or something like that, stay tuned to the end. If there is one thing that changed my life in amazing ways, it would be boundaries. However, they were so hard to learn and I'm going to hold myself in compassion for that. And if you're struggling to implement boundaries, I'm holding you in compassion as well. It's hard. Have you ever wondered if you were justified in setting a boundary because you didn't have proof of something? Or maybe the obvious behavior that needs a boundary, like explosive behavior or acting out an addiction hasn't quite yet happened yet, but you feel it building and think something is coming for me. During those times I I often felt helpless to watch it build because it seemed like nothing extreme enough had happened to warrant setting a boundary. Well, I've changed my mind about that and want to share in case it's helpful for others as well. This concept is something that I wish I had known about and just didn't. So I'm inviting listeners to lean into what I am going to share because for those of us who feel helpless to another's destructive patterns on repeat, there are things that we can do that we might not have thought about and this can Be relieving to realize that we actually have some options. What I'm going to share might seem simple, but I cannot emphasize enough how powerful it actually is. I'm going to go over some scenarios to show you why it matters. So to set this up, if you listen to the last episode, which was season two, episode nine, called When Patterns Repeat like Groundhog Day, Breaking the Cycle, you may remember that we discussed the cycle of 4A behavior. 4A behavior is abuse, addiction, adultery or abandonment. And we even have a free worksheet to print out in case it's helpful for your situation. I'll link that again in the show notes. When we understand that what we are experiencing experiencing is actually a cycle or a pattern, then we can better understand that we likely need boundaries at different intervals in the process and not just at the point of explosion. And the point of explosion looks different for everyone. And it's basically the end result, which might include abuse of various kinds, even emotional outbursts, acting out an addiction, betrayal of various kinds, etc. The 4A cycle is 3 parts and includes a stage of building and pressure, then an explosion, and finally a cooling off period that can involve things like fragile peace or love bombing, which is not authentic connection, by the way. It's so much easier to place boundaries on those large and obvious things. But there is true empowerment when we recognize that we can place boundaries on the things that are maybe not as obvious. So I've done some experimenting with what root issues are helpful to boundary, and I have ended up with three. This admittedly sounds funny, but they make an acronym for the word toe, T, O, E. And that's just to help me remember it. But first, T stands for truth. So we want to make sure that there's some honesty going on. So if we're seeing that there is not truth, we probably need a boundary. Also, there's ownership. So O is ownership. We want them to humbly account for what they've done so that we can see that there will hopefully be some change. Right? And E is empathy. And this is the hardest for those participating in destructive behaviors to achieve. And I will say that empathy is a skill that can be learned. Some people are born with it. But you know, those participating in destructive behaviors, it's hard to access. But if there's not empathy, there's typically not good, consistent, deep rooted change. Empathy requires humility. Empathy requires connection. Both humility and connection are so critical for healing a relationship. So it's very important. It's a skill to learn. And sometimes if somebody really is trying. I think there is a case to be made that it's okay if that's a work in progress, but progress absolutely does need to be made. These are the main issues that I'm going to place boundaries on. So again, truth, ownership and empathy. So let's see how this works in a few scenarios. I want to say in advance that if you find yourself relating with aspects of these scenarios like I do, I'm holding you in a lot of compassion and I'm hopeful that you can hold yourself in compassion as well. Please be gentle with yourself and feel free to pause listening if it's too triggering. Take care of yourself, friend. The other thing that I'll say is as I share different scenarios and suggest ways of maybe interacting differently. This is not a criticism. These are skills to learn. We didn't come with some magical book that explains what do you do in destructive circumstances. It's really not natural to have to implement these kinds of boundaries on destructive behavior. And I'll also point out that there is abuse in every scenario that I will be sharing. So let's start with the first scenario. Sophie notices that her husband, Charlie, has been distant. He spends long hours in his office with the door closed, often late into the night. When she asks what he's working on, he shrugs and says, just catching up on projects. One evening, Sophie hears voices coming from the office. When she opens the door, Charlie quickly closes the laptop tab. She asks what he was doing. He rolls his eyes and says, you're imagining things. You always jump to conclusions. Later, Sophie sees messages pop up on Charlie's phone that seem flirtatious. When she brings it up, Charlie laughs and replies, you're so paranoid. They were work jokes. You blow everything out of proportion. Over time, Sophie notices she's becoming more anxious and unsure of her own judgment. Whenever she expresses concern, Charlie insists she's the problem. He says things like, you're too emotional and no one else would put up with this kind of drama. A few weeks later, Sophie discovers that Charlie has been secretly engaging in an online relationship. When she confronts him, he erupts. If you weren't so insecure and took better care of me, I wouldn't need to turn to someone else. So before going on, I want to point out Darvo. [00:13:03] Speaker A: So? [00:13:04] Speaker B: So if you don't know what Darvo is, it is a classic abusive technique and it is coined by Jennifer Frade and it's deny, accuse, reverse the victim and the offender. So there is Darvo for sure going on in here. But that's hard to see when you're kind of in the middle of it. Right. So we're going to break this scenario down a bit and we're going to use our toe, our TOE acronym, which again is Truth, Ownership and Empathy. So let's start with truth. So I'll say that when somebody is a skilled liar, it is very hard to know if they're telling the truth. And of course, Charlie is using some things here where he's basically making her feel crazy or like she's over exaggerating, that kind of thing. We can see that Charlie has some issues with truth. But I will say that in those kinds of situations, I've been the person who's been like, I just want to believe that they really did click off, you know, for no good reason. And maybe, you know, there's definitely some denial there. There's definitely some denial. So I just want to encourage all of us, like, to really embrace truth because there is some protection in that, and it's hard and it's scary sometimes. So in the case of Sophie and Charlie, he was obviously not being truthful. What can we do then to say, all right, now I'm going to have to have a boundary. And it correlates really strongly with the O, which is ownership. And for one thing, we obviously know because he's lying. We can see, you know, the overall picture here that he is lying. But even if Sophie doesn't know that, there are things that he is not taking ownership of. So, for instance, when we start back and we look and he closes out that tab really quickly on his computer, that could be worth setting a boundary on now, just a reminder that boundaries are things that we do and not necessarily things that others do. So in this case, for me, if it were me, and I were practicing this and showing up as my best self, which I don't always do, then I would probably do something like this, where I could say, I saw you close out that tab really quickly. Something feels off about that. And I'm wondering if you will share with me what you just closed out of now, that statement, right? There is not a boundary. That is just a request. The boundary would come for me if he would say, no, I'm not going to show you, or he would say something like, you're just imagining things, or, I didn't do that, or it was just something that I was like a gift or something that I was hiding. So if he refuses to share that information, then I would probably need a boundary. And we don't have to jump to worst Case scenarios. It's one of those. It's not necessarily, well, now I'm going to separate, and now I'm going to file for divorce or something like that. And maybe that is appropriate, but oftentimes will want to start a little smaller. So something that I might do is if he refuses to show me what was clicked out of, I might actually sleep in another room or ask him to sleep in another room. And if he doesn't sleep in another room, I would do it because I don't really have control over what he does. But I absolutely can request that. And I might word it something like this. You know, something feels off. I want to be close to you, and I want to do the fun things that we have planned coming up. But in order to do that, I need you to take ownership of what you are doing. And if not, I'm gonna just go take really good care of myself. And I am going to make sure that I get a good night's rest. Cause that's really hard to do when I'm laying next to you and feeling this disconnect. And then we've got the empathy piece. And he's obviously missing a lot of empathy in his responses. For instance, when he says, you always jump to conclusions, right? Empathy would be something like, I'm sorry, that that felt triggering. It makes sense, especially considering it looked sketchy. Or maybe he has a pattern of behaving in those, you know, sneaky ways or something, and it's been a problem because likely it was right, because we're. We're talking about patterns that we're trying to break. And typically these things do come in patterns. And so if he had responded with empathy, to say, it makes sense, he would have been open because he would have been willing to connect with her, and he would have been willing to look and show her what he had been doing. Right. And at that point, too, if he was in a good place for empathy, then he would have been able to say, hey, look, I've been doing this thing. I am really sorry, and I know I shouldn't do it, and I can see that this hurts. And I'm willing to give you what you need. Space, time. I'm willing to make amends, you know, whatever. They are willing to do that, to go into those deep, dark spaces with us to do the therapy or whatever it is we need. So again, if he's not showing up with empathy, then it's best if we look and say, okay, well, what is it that I need? Then? How can I take Care of my needs. And oftentimes that in and of itself is a boundary that we're actively engaging in, making sure that we're okay, that we get the connection we need with safe people. So maybe that's we need a therapist, or maybe we need an amazing group of friends or maybe to attend a TS12 and on meeting. Right? We need something. We need some support and people who really get it. We could keep breaking this down, but let's move on to number two. So scenario two is Claire has noticed that her husband David, who has problematic drinking habits that he often hides, has been unusually quiet the past few weeks. He comes home from work, sinks into the couch and stares at the TV without much conversation. When she asks how he's doing, he. He shrugs and mutters, I'm fine, just tired. He stops initiating time together. No more walks in the evening, no more checking in about her day. When Claire reaches for his hand, he pulls away, saying he's not in the mood. She feels the emptiness growing between them. On Friday night, Claire suggests they go out to dinner. David refuses, saying, I just don't have the energy for that right now. Instead, he retreats to the basement. The next morning, David is downstairs. Claire finds him passed out on the couch, and after looking more carefully, finds an empty liquor bottle hidden under the couch. So again today, we're looking at those early behaviors. What can we do to create some safety for ourselves? Right? And if we're looking at David and his patterns, he. He has a pattern of abandonment, of disconnecting. And I want to just mention that oftentimes those with destructive patterns do disconnect. And sometimes they do it because there's often some sort of betrayal right in their behavior. And betrayal isn't always sexual. So in the case here, we've got David who disconnects. And when he disconnects, it is part of his ritual so that he can then go and drink. Or maybe he doesn't get his emotional needs met or something, and then he feels like he needs to drink. And why this is important to know is because if we're looking at the toe, the truth, ownership and empathy. David is missing for sure. Ownership, right, of his emotions. He's missing ownership of why he is not connecting. And that's causing severe distress and distance in a marriage. He's missing ownership that he is abandoning Claire so all of those things could be boundaried. And the other thing that he's obviously missing is that empathy piece. Again, he's not seeing that his wife has needs that she wants to connect with him, that she also needs some kind of compassion. And while everybody gets tired sometimes, right, we're not, we're not talking about just one time being tired though this is a pattern, this is going on for a while. This is not just a single event. Let's move on to scenario number three. Lena has been trying to share her feelings with her boyfriend Chris about feeling stressed and overwhelmed at work. She hopes for understanding and support. When she begins to talk, Chris interrupts her mid sentence. You're being dramatic again. You worry about everything. Over the next few days, whenever Lena tries to express herself, Chris rolls his eyes, sighs heavily or changes the subject. Sometimes he makes jokes at her expense. Oh, here comes Lena's daily panic hour. Lena laughs nervously, feeling like she has to play along to avoid conflict. One evening when she tells him she's been having trouble sleeping from stress, Chris suddenly slams his hand on the counter and snaps. Enough already. I can't deal with you constantly whining, you're impossible. The anger in his voice makes Lena's chest tighten. Shaken, she leaves the room in tears, feeling small and ashamed. A few minutes later, Chris follows her. His tone has shifted. He wraps his arms around her, saying softly, hey, I'm sorry, you know I love you. I just get frustrated sometimes because I want you to be happy. You are everything to me. Relieved and confused, Lena clings to his sudden tenderness. The push and pull leave her emotionally exhausted, walking on eggshells and unsure of which version of Kris she will get. So if it's alright, let's break this scenario down according to the the 4A cycle, right? So we've got the building up, right? He's being, he's saying she's being dramatic. She worries about everything. He's making fun of her, he's being rude. And then comes the explosion where he snaps. But then in this scenario it's a lot more obvious where there's some love bombing going on. So, so this fragile piece, right? And so he, all of a sudden it's like he's two different people. He's scary in one moment and then he's very tender and soft in the next. And I guess I just want to suggest that if we're looking at where we can place boundaries in all three stages, let's focus on that third stage at this moment because here he's looking amazing, right? And like okay, everything is going to be okay. There's this push pull effect. And I just want to say that for us trauma survivors that push pull effect is dangerous. It is like the essence of a trauma bond. It is terrifying, honestly, because of what kind of control it can have over us. So I guess I'll just suggest that if we're in a situation like that and then we're all of a sudden experiencing this like different shift, this different personality, this, this really soft or love bombing or whatever feeling, that is a place to place boundaries as well. So for instance, we might say something like, hey, what just happened in there? That's not okay. I'm not okay with it. Here's some things that I need for safety and until that is met, I need some space. I don't want to live in fear and I know that I'm worthy of being treated better than that. And you know what? If we can't say that that's okay, if we don't yet know, for instance, that we're worthy of being treated better than that, it is okay to step back and actually work on that self worth piece. And I just want you to hear it from somebody that you are absolutely worth safety. You deserve it. Absolutely. You deserve safety. Each one of us does. Okay, so this next scenario is about course of control. And I want to clearly state that this example is not likely at all to benefit from our toe example from looking at truth, ownership and empathy. This is going to have some different things, some different tools that we're going to need. So I'm going to read this and I want to give people the opportunity that if it's a good fit to listen, great, and if it's going to be triggering and painful, it is okay to turn it off. Course of control scenario Hannah and Daniel have been married for several years. At first, everything seemed normal. But over time, Hannah notices subtle patterns in Daniel's behavior that leave her feeling trapped. Daniel insists on knowing where she is at all times and tracks her location. He sometimes asks her to text him pictures of where she is at that very moment. He controls finances tightly. Hannah has an allowance that covers basics. And if she purchases something for herself, Daniel tells her how selfish and irresponsible she is. Even when she follows what he wants. Daniel. Daniel makes her feel irresponsible and stupid. Daniel also dictates social interactions. Friends she used to see regularly are now a source of tension. Why are you meeting them without me? Or I don't want you to spend so much time with them. Over time, Hannah begins canceling plans just to avoid conflict. She no longer has contact with her family or friends and stays home a majority of the time to avoid conflict. Small decisions become battlegrounds what to eat, what she should wear, how to spend her free time. Daniel frames his restrictions as care or concern, but the pattern is controlling. Hannah starts second guessing herself. Constantly anxious about doing anything that might trigger criticism or anger. Over months, Hannah feels isolated, anxious and powerless. Even though nothing physically prevents her from leaving. The coercive control erodes her confidence, autonomy and sense of self. She no longer feels safe, leaving her living under constant scrutiny and pressure. So I want to state that under this circumstance, this is very severe. This is where scary things can happen, where people are abused in all sorts of ways and are made to feel like they cannot get help. And actually it can escalate and getting help can even be dangerous. So this becomes very, very severe. And for those who find themselves in such a situation, I see you, I'm holding you in so much compassion. You are not alone. You don't have to be alone. Everybody's path to healing and help matters and it can look different. I don't know anybody's fit. I want to mention a few resources that may help. One, the National Domestic Violence Hotline has won a phone number that can be called, but also they have a create your own safety plan guide. And it's, it's on their website. I'll put it in the show notes and you can just kind of click through and you can do your own safety plan. Also if it's helpful to go over it with someone, you can find a victim advocate who can do that with you. Sometimes it's just nice even though it's there and you can be guided through. Sometimes it's so stabilizing to have somebody there who has empathy, who can say, yes, this is severe and help us think of different things that we might need for safety. Various different organizations have advocates, victim advocates, and I want to point out a lot of nonprofits do. And in fact our nonprofit does. And if that is something that her wings unfold, could walk with you through. We would love to hear from you. I will put a way to contact us in the show notes. In these sorts of situations, therapy can be critical. Therapists often help us see things that we can't see or offer different ideas or help point out how severe situations might be that, that we might not have caught that because it's hard to see when we're in the middle of something and something else that is absolutely critical really is that we develop community, that survivors develop some sort of community of people who have maybe walked the path ahead of us and they understand what it's like and they have empathy, and they can hear us and hold that pain. But also they can offer insights and. And ways to move forward and to progress. There's something just so stabilizing about a community who truly, truly gets it. For anyone who needs help, I want to mention the National Domestic Violence Hotline. That number is 800-799-safe S A, F E or 7233. So again, that's 800-799-7233. [00:32:56] Speaker A: Whispers in the hallway Secrets in the dark? I carried blame that wasn't mine to start? Thought if I was stronger maybe they'd stay? But they took what they wanted and walked away so I fled. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Thank you for joining us today on Relational Trauma SOS a Her Wings Unfold production. We invite you to visit our websites, her wingsunfold.org, and ts twelveanon.org, for more information and resources. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Higher than every single life. [00:33:34] Speaker B: Trauma survivors belong here.